Friday, August 26, 2005

Divine Design or WHAT?

The other day Toby and I were having a lengthy discussion. Does God really know the exact choices we are going to make from the day we're born until the day we die? I guess I always thought so but my husband proposed a new way of thinking in this belief: if God has given man free will, then would we really have a choice in every matter in life if He already knows what we will choose?

Toby's argument was that since God can never be wrong than if someone is born into this world and God KNOWS they are never going to choose to follow Christ but are going to die an eternal death, then that person will NEVER have the chance to turn to Christ.

My response was that God knows without planning what choice that person will make, that he/she will ultimately never make the choice for Life eternal. God didn't design that person with the choice that they would choose the way of Satan; He just knew when they were made that they would never choose God.

Toby said that then God does not give free will.

I'm still not certain what I believe but not a day has gone by that I haven't thought about this question since we had the discussion. I hope to have an answer for myself soon as this is an overwhelming question in my mind.


Anonymous said...

I'm still right. Love, Toby

Anonymous said...

Why can't God "never be wrong"? To me, I don't think that is right. If God was never wrong than why is Satan around, and why did Noah need to build an ark because God needed to remove some bad people he created? And no free will? The Apple??? Either Toby's religion is wrong or religion in general is, because it doesn't make sense.

Sorry, probably off topic, but such a strict belief on issues like this seems pretty outdated....almost middle ages thinking...not real life thinking. I don't know what to believe offense Toby or others, I am just trying to understand this confusing thing called religion....

Coeur d'Court said...

Toby's point was that God does give free will. That's why He created "the apple" in the garden of Eden. He wanted the people He created to CHOOSE by themselves whether or not they'd obey and love God. It was their choice and God wanted it that way. How would you like a friend that was only your friend because they HAD to be? You would probably wonder at times if they really did WANT to love you. That's how God is. He doesn't force His created people to obey Him, to choose life, to love Him. He gave us the choice.

As for God never being wrong, that is as clear as the sun that will rise in the east tomorrow morning: GOD CANNOT EVER BE WRONG. He is God. The fact that He repented of the world He created in Noah's day was because of the wrong choices the people chose. They had corrupted and defiled the earth and God could only fix it by destroying everything except what and who was in the ark.

God didn't say, "Oops, messed up on that one; now I have to do something quick to fix it." No, it was men's choices that drove the world to destruction.

Satan wasn't created to be what he is today. He was an angel of God before time and through his own choosing, he decided he wanted to be his own God. You can't serve two masters. He was cast out of heaven with all the fallen angels and is now the wicked, evil and vile being he is today.

This issue I wrote on isn't exactly a belief I have persay; it's merely a collection of thoughts that often cross through my mind. I have a tendency to think deeper about issues than a lot of people but it doesn't mean that I make a belief system out of my thinking patterns. My beliefs are firmly founded in the Word of God.

I hope you can find answers for the questions you have in your mind. Religion is confusing but God isn't. Knowing God and giving your life to Him brings a deep knowledge of what God wants for you. Read the book of John (in the Bible) and learn what God is and what religion isn't.

And, no offense was taken. :-) Glad you stopped by.

Angela Emrich said...

Wow, how weird. Ragnar and I just had this exact discussion the other day, almost word for word. Of course, Ragnar thought like Toby and my comeback was like yours. Freaky.